Controversy: At the Earnest Contender Blog???
Elder Rule vs. Congregational Authority
My pastor, bishop Philip De Courcy, and I have found some room for a bit of disagreement between us. No! It’s not the kind that separates friends. I didn’t call him names and he didn’t give me a black eye. We just have a different perspective of the role of elders and deacons in our Baptist church. Now I am not trying to hang out the dirty laundry for the neighbors to see. I do want readers to understand that there can and is room for disagreement among friends. Perhaps you dear reader would like to engage and tell me how you feel I may not always respond, but I’m sure there are those who would. Then again that may be assuming an awful lot.
Let me say up front I reject the elder ruler model of government in favor of a congregational model (to greater and lesser degrees). I do not think the church needs to weigh in on all decisions. I do think the church should be informed and led. I do believe that the church should finalize major decisions such as affirming her officers, selecting and sending out missionaries, and of course spending (if the amount exceeds the amount I have in my wallet, NOT). I think officers should then serve/lead in their God given capacities and in the dignity of their office. I also muse that the church be open to paid and/or non-paid, non-seminary trained elders, and that a significant amount of ministry should be to train (disciple) such men for His service. My pastor and I are really not too far apart on these ideas.
If you would like to hear his take visit pastor’s archives and help yourself to any of these messages.
Another brother and faithful elder has also helped me work through some of my views. You can read all about it at Anvil and Fire.
Brother Joe, who is an all-round great guy, offered this wisdom. You can always find followship at Joe's Jottings.
What is your view, elder rule or congregational authority?
My pastor, bishop Philip De Courcy, and I have found some room for a bit of disagreement between us. No! It’s not the kind that separates friends. I didn’t call him names and he didn’t give me a black eye. We just have a different perspective of the role of elders and deacons in our Baptist church. Now I am not trying to hang out the dirty laundry for the neighbors to see. I do want readers to understand that there can and is room for disagreement among friends. Perhaps you dear reader would like to engage and tell me how you feel I may not always respond, but I’m sure there are those who would. Then again that may be assuming an awful lot.
Let me say up front I reject the elder ruler model of government in favor of a congregational model (to greater and lesser degrees). I do not think the church needs to weigh in on all decisions. I do think the church should be informed and led. I do believe that the church should finalize major decisions such as affirming her officers, selecting and sending out missionaries, and of course spending (if the amount exceeds the amount I have in my wallet, NOT). I think officers should then serve/lead in their God given capacities and in the dignity of their office. I also muse that the church be open to paid and/or non-paid, non-seminary trained elders, and that a significant amount of ministry should be to train (disciple) such men for His service. My pastor and I are really not too far apart on these ideas.
If you would like to hear his take visit pastor’s archives and help yourself to any of these messages.
Another brother and faithful elder has also helped me work through some of my views. You can read all about it at Anvil and Fire.
Brother Joe, who is an all-round great guy, offered this wisdom. You can always find followship at Joe's Jottings.
What is your view, elder rule or congregational authority?
12 Comments:
John,
I believe that the elders should be training the elders of tomorrow, via personal discipleship and ministry from the pulpit. I believe that the quality of the sermons should be such that the sheep would be getting a seminary level of education in the entire Bible over the course of a few years.
Yes, it is clear that the congregation had THE say in the selection of deacons in Acts 6. I will agree with you about big matters being brought before the whole congregation.
If we look at Acts 15:4,22 it would seem that the entire congregation had a say in the council at Jerusalem, concerning the circumcission issue.
Good and free thinking post, John!
Mark
By mark pierson, at 3/4/06 7:16 AM
In a congregational form of government, it is generally assumed that the majority is more likely to be in God's will than the minority.
An iffy primise at best.
But the potential for abuse is just as great with the non-congregational forms, since they depend on individuals or groups of individuals (ar ethere any other kinds of groups?) who may be subject to corrutions of various orders.
That is why it is so important to continually emphasize submission and servitude to Christ.
Good post with good questions.
By Joe, at 3/4/06 8:59 AM
John,
Sorry I couldn't respond to your comment at my blog on this issue. Got knocked down for a week, but I appreciate what you are saying here.
I like to say that we are elder led at our church, not elder ruled. However, I do lean to the plurality of elders that lead the church. But leading means bringing people along with you...
JRush
By John R., at 3/4/06 4:32 PM
Hi Mark~
Amen! I believe that principle is also found in Paul’s second letter to his now (at that time) maturing protégé pastor Timothy (2Tim.2:20). I also think we dad’s need to be active training our children in much the same way, in life issues. The things they don’t or won’t teach at school. This is a tough task at times.
Thanks for your excellent comment.
brother John
By J. Wendell, at 3/4/06 10:51 PM
Joe,
Thank you for your contribution here.
No earthly organization is perfect, but I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, “That is why it is so important to continually emphasize submission and servitude to Christ.” If we (Gk. for I) keep submission to Christ and servanthood to His body in mind church government is secondary and Christ will build His church.
brother John
By J. Wendell, at 3/4/06 10:52 PM
Pastor JRush,
Good to hear from you.
“For a just man to get knocked down for a week, and riseth up again…” (Pro 24:16 The EC paraphrase). I’m glad your up.
I do so appreciate your perspective, of solid biblical leadership. I am sure you are a blessing to those God has called you to lead.
brother John
By J. Wendell, at 3/4/06 10:55 PM
Christ ruled, elder led (and I go with a plurality) and Church authorized.
Great post! ;-)
By Kc, at 4/4/06 8:40 AM
Hi KC,
Thanks for your comment.
I concur with your statement. Christ ruled, elder led (and I go with a plurality) and church authority.
brother John
By J. Wendell, at 4/4/06 5:12 PM
I wanted to add that elders are to focus on the spiritual oversight of the congregation... Not trustees that determine the needs of the physical plant. These are to be men with pastoral instincts and abilities that labor in the word and prayer.
JRush
By John R., at 5/4/06 11:09 AM
'What is your view, elder rule or congregational authority?'
The authority of the Holy Spirit.
As I do not think we have elders in the fulness of the Biblical sense today, I suppose I probably come down on the side of congregational authority.
God Bless
Matthew
By Matthew Celestine, at 6/4/06 7:56 AM
I'm for Elder-led congregations. By that I mean that I am not Presbyterian but I do see a plurality of elders affirmed in scripture. I also see that they are not the dictators of the church.
By Jeremy Weaver, at 6/4/06 9:07 PM
Hi JRush,
well put... thanks for that addition.
Hi Matthew, thanks for sharing your view here. Blessings back :)
Brother Jeremy,
Thanks for stopping by. I see a plurality of elders affirmed in scripture too, and Amen they are NOT dictators to the church.
brother John
By J. Wendell, at 8/4/06 11:09 AM
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